Interview with David Woodbury, Parrot-Link
By Charlie • January 17, 2009 • 13 commentsIn November I was surfing the web looking for info or contacts for our ‘Parrot Month’ when I came across a UK-based website called Parrot-Link - which is described on its homepage as “the first UK web site dedicated to helping parrots and their owners”. Replete with conservation messages and advice not to buy wild birds, the homepage also pointed out that the Parrot-Link forum was “the largest parrot forum, currently with more than 8,000 members - almost certainly the largest UK parrot forum and possibly the largest worldwide!”
As I know virtually nothing about what it’s like to own a parrot - I had a Budgerigar when I was about seven which died because I didn’t know how to look after it and I’ve never dipped my toe into the water again - and ‘Parrot Month’ came about partly because of queries mailed into the blog asking our opinions on owning parrots, I thought I’d contact the site owner, David Woodbury and ask him if he’d be interested in doing an interview for 10,000 Birds. After a follow-up email explaining what we were attempting to do with ‘Parrot Month’ (raise awareness of the threats facing wild parrots, NOT having a go at existing parrot owners) I phoned David and we talked for about 40 minutes.
David who lives in north Wales with his wife and some thirty parrots, is as you might expect a very knowledgeable and interesting man who readily agreed to an interview. I said that I’d write some questions for him as soon as I could (based around the complete lack of knowledge I have of what it’s like to own a parrot, or any idea at all what parrot owners think about their birds or conservation issues etc), and he in turn offered to fill in any gaps with additional info which he thought I may want to know. The result of all this is posted below and is definitely worth reading!
David many thanks for talking to 10,000 Birds. Can I ask first, why parrots? When we spoke on the phone you said that you’ve always been interested in birds but what makes a rational man like yourself share your home with a crowd of demanding parrots?
- DW: I was brought up in a household where my mother was interested in birds and, as a young teenager started keeping Finches. Very near to us lived an old couple who had an African Grey Parrot which they would take out around the town on their shoulders. It was this bird which is the guilty party!
When I left home and went to college my bird-keeping ceased but resumed about 15 years later when I bought a house with a garden.
Now I live in North Wales and have the additional benefit of seeing Red Kites and Ravens from my window plus many summer and winter migrants.
Which birds do you have currently and - if this isn’t an unfair question - which is your favourite and why?
- DW: We currently keep Pionus Parrots and Amazon Parrots as (potential) breeding birds which live outside in aviaries. We also have some rescued birds which live indoors during the colder months: these include an African Grey and some Lovebirds. We have bred African Greys, Eclectus and Macaws (Ara) but my favourites are still the Mealy Amazons Amazona farinosa
Is your flock relatively stable now or are you still looking to take on more (for example a rescue/abandoned bird)?
- DW: The flock tends to be reasonably stable although there is an element in most bird-keepers which means that we will try to keep and breed different species if the opportunity arises. The rescued birds tend to arrive because we are known in the area as people who keep birds and therefore it is assumed that we will take in unwanted birds. We have a blind Orange-winged Amazon Amazona amazonica and a partially- sighted Lovebird.
You must spend a large part of your day looking after your birds. Do you ever think, “It’s 6:00 am, it’s cold, I wish I could stay in bed” or do you look forward to seeing them/working with them every day (if the latter - why particularly)?
- DW: For most of the year aviary birds are relatively easy to maintain as they live in pairs and tend to amuse themselves. During the breeding season (April till September) they may require dietary enrichment and during the colder months one tends to keep a closer watch.
The outside birds generally take about an hour and a half a day at most to feed and water. Aviary birds actually prefer not to have too much contact with humans. House birds are more time consuming in that cages have to be cleaned daily, stimulus provided etc.
Most mornings I enjoy walking around the aviaries but it is true to say that cold winter mornings are less fun. The challenge of breeding parrots, ie correct feeding housing etc, is what drives people like myself. Of course we can sell surplus young birds but over a period we spend more on feeding and housing than we “earn”.
On top of that you set up a website, Parrot-Link, that looks like it’s probably another full-time job in itself as well! On your homepage you say that Parrot-Link is “the first UK web site dedicated to helping parrots and their owners”. Did you see the site as something YOU needed as much as you thought other owners might, or did you see a need and decide you may as well step in?
- DW: I didn’t actually set up the site but took over from the creator, a friend, about 8 years ago. It was then simply a collection of information pages. The whole thing took off when we introduced the forum. At the time I was really clueless, (and still am!) but realised that there was a need. At that time wild parrots were still being imported so there was an issue to deal with. Sadly many of these poor birds died or ended up as pets (for which they were totally unsuitable). Now there are huge numbers of captive-bred birds but still a need to inform and support potential owners.
I recently set up a small site, www.pionusparrots.co.uk, to promote my interest in this group.
Bronze-winged Parrot/Pionus Pionus chalcopterus.
Photo copyright David Woodbury
You get over 60,000 visitors a month now. That’s more than many ‘leading’ bird websites and blogs (ours included - at the moment!). That must make you very proud?
- DW: Yes, I am proud of what we have achieved. Interestingly many of the features we introduced such as the Breeders Directory, are now widely copied.
I’m assuming that most of your visitors are non-members looking for general advice on parrot ownership (though I notice there are some interesting and amusing ‘rants’ in the forum that are definitely ‘off-topic’ too)? Or is Parrot-Link more a community of like-minded people?
- DW: I regard the site as an extended family. Generally we agree (although we have had some spectacular arguments). We were regarded as a rather stroppy bunch (nicknamed “The Dark Side” by one of our rivals). The members come from all sorts of backgrounds but share one thing in common. I would like to think that we have a collective sense of humour.
Quote from Parrot-Link website: “There are an estimated 60 million parrots in captivity in the United States. If every bird owner would donate just $1.00 for each of their parrots to a conservation fund, we could save all of the endangered species in the world. http://www.breedersblend.com/goldenconurefund.html is a great place to get started.” |
This might seem a stupid question to someone like yourself who has many friends who own parrots, but is it possible to describe to an ‘average’ parrot owner, or do they come in all shapes and sizes as it were with just as many reasons for wanting to own a bird?
- DW: See above. We have members who have large, expensive, breeding collections and members who may own one Cockatiel. Many of us who have collections of larger Parrots started with a Budgerigar, or similar, as a pet.
There will probably be someone reading this who’s thinking about buying a parrot. Many people I’ve spoken to for ‘Parrot Month’ say that it’s actually a lot harder to look after them properly then many people might think. Do you agree or is that too general?
- DW: Most commonly available Parrots (African Greys and Amazons for example) are very easy to house and feed provided that you can put up with the noise, dust, mess and inconvenience.
The problems arise when people choose, or are persuaded to buy, birds which generally are not suited as house birds: for example the white Cockatoos and large (Ara) Macaws.
Are there certain species you’d recommend a novice to buy then?
- DW: If asked I tend to advise people to start with smaller, less destructive species such as Pionus, Conures, Poicephalus, Caiques and even Cockatiels. Unfortunately first-time buyers are often impressed by pictures of the larger more “glamorous” birds, many of which are unsuitable.
In your experience what are the highs and lows the average newcomer to owning parrots can expect?
- DW: Owning a Parrot as a companion bird can be very rewarding provided that you are totally prepared and informed BEFORE you purchase.
Quote from Parrot-Link website: “Please remember that if you are buying a hand-reared baby parrot, it involves a great deal of commitment. The larger species should live for at least 30 years. Any respectable breeder should provide you with detailed instructions regarding the care of the parrot and a receipt. If the parrot is rung, make sure that the ring number is on the receipt.” |
Can we talk a little about welfare issues. I don’t doubt for a second that the majority of owners ‘love’ their birds, but does that translate into a genuine knowledge about what parrots need do you think? And what are the commonest welfare issues that you know or hear about?
- DW: Most parrots naturally bond with one other member of their species. In captivity this bond will be formed with the owner. Hand-reared, ie imprinted, birds become dependent on their owner. It is this behaviour which makes parrots so popular but also creates many of the welfare problems.
A bird may not choose to bond with the person who has bought it but with another household member. The parrot when sexually mature may defend its human “mate” against other household members. Parrots are capable of inflicting severe injuries. If the owner cannot keep the bird it will be passed on to another home but may well not adjust to life without its preferred “mate”.
Most welfare problems arise as a result of poorly informed owners. Diet is a common problem area as many owners (and food manufacturers) assume wrongly that all parrots eat the same diets.
When we talked on the phone last week you made the excellent point that some captive parrots can live for many years and that potential owners need to realise that they’re buying a bird that will grow old with them through all the lifestyle changes that comes with the typical person’s life. Could you expand on that a little?
- DW: An African Grey Parrot should live for at least 40 years. If, for example, you buy a young bird when you are single or in your late twenties that bird should live as long as you. What happens if you get married (to a non bird lover), have children, become ill, emigrate, lose your house, die or are subject to any relatively common life changes?
The parrot suffers…It’s a great point. Again this may sound like a naive question, but as a birder with a deep interest in conservation issues I’ve often wondered where the UK’s pet parrots come from. Are most birds now captive bred? I’m assuming that if there is smuggling of wild birds into the UK it’s on a small scale, especially since the EU ban on the trade of wild birds. Is that your feeling too?
- DW: Virtually all pet parrots in the UK are captive-bred. There will still be a population of wild-caught birds but I am pleased to say that the EU no longer imports parrots. Sadly there is still illegal trapping in many countries and there are non-EU countries which import birds.
Quote from Parrot-Link website: ” “DEALERSPEAK” What they tell you and what they don’t… This means taken from a nest, often involving the felling of the nesting tree, force-fed, shipped off to a collection point, crated and exported. If the poor thing survives this process it may end up advertised in your local free paper. Lucky bird!” |
You also said when we spoke that there probably too many parrots being bred by too many people, and that there are some species that are in effect in surplus - too many birds and too few owners for them. Which species in particular, and do you know what happens to unwanted parrots like these?
- DW: This is the most serious issue at present. Many species are actually relatively easy to breed and there is a large amount of totally unscrupulous breeding. African Greys are probably the biggest concern.
“We” are creating a huge potential welfare problem as most of these birds will live in excess of 30 years, many will be sold on after less than 2 years, (when the novelty wears off) and there is no co-ordinated programme to care for all these un-wanted birds, many of which will have serious behavioural problems.
There are many “rescue” organisations in the UK most of which simply collect un-wanted birds and use them to breed more which is frankly ludicrous.
There are a few self-funded organisations dealing with these birds but they are in danger of becoming overwhelmed. The situation may well become much worse in the current financial climate as unscrupulous breeders may start offloading unwanted breeding stock if sales of young birds drop. Feed prices are also rising which won’t help.
Is there any mechanism or legislation to prevent breeders producing so many birds, or is this largely an unregulated ‘industry’?
- DW: At present the “industry” is completely unregulated unless you keep and breed birds requiring CITES paperwork. People who keep rarer parrots generally are working as groups to increase the numbers of rarer birds and are not producing birds for the pet market.
Is there any evidence that the EU import ban on wild birds has meant that breeders stepped up production thinking there would be a gap in the market, or is that impossible to say?
- DW: The production of captive-bred birds of the species which were commonly imported did rise. However most of the young birds were sold as pets so the potential future breeding stock was not increased. Despite the breeding of hundreds, possibly thousands, of African Greys in the UK annually most of the parent birds are still the wild caught birds. However breeders are beginning to realise that to be sustainable “we” need to keep back some young birds as future breeding stock.
I was reading on your forum a very passionate discussion about “cube” breeding. I’m not knowledgeable enough to be able to say one way or another whether “cube” breeding is satisfactory or not in terms of welfare, but it does raise an important question: if someone buys a parrot from, eg, a pet-shop is there any way for the potential owner to know for sure how the bird was reared?
- DW: That’s a very thorny and difficult issue. Generally speaking I think that breeding birds should have access to fresh air, wind and rain etc and be able to fly. There are some nervous species that actually breed better in smaller, more sheltered enclosures.
Any potential buyer can, to a greater or lesser extent, choose from quite a wide range of sellers and many pet shops no longer sell parrots which is generally a good thing.
For good reasons, eg possible theft, many private breeders do not allow outsiders to visit their collections.
Quote from Parrot-Link website: “And please DO NOT BUY WILD CAUGHT PARROTS |
So what would be the best advice for a potential owner whne it comes to buying a bird?
- DW: I would suggest that a potential owner contacts a range of recommended breeders and choose one which seems most helpful and least keen to sell!
This is a very inflammatory question but I have to ask it: what would you say to someone who said to you, “Owning any bird is wrong, and it should be banned outright”?
- DW: Responsible bird-keeping, either as a pet-owner or breeder, should be encouraged and there should be very stringent and enforced regulation to rid aviculture of the rogues. Wellfare standards for captive birds are being introduced but the enforcement may be a problem.
A ban now would result in tens of thousands of homeless birds.
We have several members with physical, and other, disabilities whose lives are greatly enriched by their feathered companions.
Can we just talk a little about wild parrots. One thing I’m very interested in is the apparent disconnect many birders have with parrots being ‘proper’ or ‘real’ birds. I’m convinced many birders aren’t really interested in parrots as a family. You made the very good point when we spoke that in the wild parrots are actually very difficult to see (many are tree-canopy feeders, for example, and fly long distances every day making them hard to pin down) and I realise I’ve only see a handful of wild parrots despite travelling all over the world. I was wondering whether you feel that parrot owners in general essentially feel the same way - that parrots are ‘domesticated’ birds compared with, say, the wild birds that might also visit their gardens?
- DW: Most captive-bred birds are now several generations removed from their wild relations so we have modified their behaviour to suit our needs. The Budgerigar, for example, is effectively a domestic animal. I suspect that most people who are buying parrots now are largely unaware of their origins as wild birds.
I’m not trying to malign parrot owners in the slightest but in general do you think they give much thought to where their birds came from or of conservation issues facing wild birds?
- DW: Sadly, not enough do.
Lastly, I know you’ve been to St Vincent to see the endemic parrot there (which I’m very envious of), but if money was no object which parrot species would you next most like to see in the wild?
- DW: The Blue-crowned Mealy Amazon (Guatemala or Belize) or the Cuban Amazon [photo right, taken from Wikipedia]. Are you paying?
If the Belize Tourism Authority ever offer me free tickets to bird over there I promise I’ll let you know!
David, many thanks indeed for your time. I’ve learnt a lot, and I’m sure many of our readers will have done too.
- DW: You are welcome.
NB: Whilst 10,000 Birds is not and never will be in the business of recommending people buy, sell, or own birds, Parrot-Link does provide an informed look at owning a parrot: if you are thinking of buying a parrot and would like some sensible, plain-speaking advice then please visit a website like http://www.parrot-link.co.uk BEFORE making any purchase.
i am concerned with regards to davids views , if people are advised to buy from a breeder and in effect line the breeders pockets where currently they are losing trade , what happens to all the birds who through no fault of their own have to be rehomed ( for example in the event of a death or change in circumstances) if people buy from breeders there will lots and lots of parrots needing new homes - what happens to them , whilst i agree if you intend to buy from a breeder buy from a reputable one or one that has been reccomended as there are many breeders out there selling babies that are unweaned and at risk of dying if not given the proper care and advice ( actually more common than you think ) i think also the birds who are in need of rehoming should be given a second chance - for example disabled birds can lead as normal a life as they adapt easily to their disability - should they be written off? in giving ‘rescued’ or rehomed birds a second chance u are limiting the amount of birds that will eventually be rehomed (e.g when ppl cant cope with the maturity process an older bird would better suit their needs).
whilst this debate could go on and on i think the main key is educating owners to not only be parrot owners but RESPONSIBLE parrot owners.
having looked at parrot link following reading this article i see david also supports rescues so am confused as to why he was promoting buying from breeders, it came across quite a hypocritical view in many senses .
there are many rescues out there for all types of animals and i think they should be supported for the work they do which is not highly recognised and acknowledged, however if u intend to buy from breeders please check them out ask lots of questions and if possible go for a breeder who has sold to someone u know so that u know what service they provide .
to quote david further ‘birds will become surplus to requirements if less ppl buy from breeders’ - i noticed u are speaking from experience as on parrot link u have rehomed some of ur own birds so from ur experience - should birds be rehomed just because they have no use in the breeding circle and is that not purely using them for profit purposes to regain more stock that will make money- should their welfare not come first as they have been good to u in producing good clutches , could breeders not have a seperate area for their birds to retire to rather than rehome them like they have no use ? could this not reduce the amount of birds rehomed?
i would like to see an article from a rescues point of view also, to see how many views are shared and would like to reiterate what i have already said its not about peopl becoming parrot owners its about people being RESPONSIBLE parrot owners and i think breeders should be more involved in the education side rather than making a profit and then cutting off- and there are some out there who do but they are few and far between so worth looking for them and asking as many questions before buying your parrot
Hi Pat
Thanks for mailing in. I’m sure David will defend his views if he feels it necessary (I don’t know him at all well enough to say either way), but I will say that he struck me overall as responsible or I wouldn’t have run the interview. I know nothing at all about owning birds as I said at the head of the interview and David’s views seemed well-balanced and he was very firmly against importing and buying wild-caught birds: I wanted to get an owner’s views and David was the only person who agreed to talk to a bird blog on a subject that he knew full well would be contentious. If any other owners want to contact me and add to the discussion I’d welcome it of course - my email is in the profile/about section of the blog.
FYI we are talking to a couple of rescue organisations, and will be running their interviews later in the week. Again, if anyone else would like to contribute to the debate please contact me: as I’ve said (often) this is not something I know much about and I’m very interested to hear as many views as possible (as long as they’re well-argued, profanity-free and not libellous!)
Cheers
parrot-link is a community of people with interests in parrots but that does not mean that the site has to only discuss parrot-related subjects. For Pat Harding: if it was not made clear, I will, and do, support responsible breeders. Likewise I support any rescue organisation involved with parrots(or any other creature) that is concerned with rescue rather than obtaining free birds( which sadly many parrot rescues are really about).
I have been a member of parrot-link for some years now and “rescued” birds for a large part of my life.
David’s support for parrot rescue is brilliant, he was kind enough to offer parrotcare its own area on the forum and along with his great team of Moderators has supported the rescue 100%
Parrot-link also has a lot of very useful information on caring for parrots and wild birds.
Because of the forum a larger number of breeders send their ex breeding birds to me where they stay for life and are never past on to other breeders.
Most of the parrot rescues (that do not breed) are not set up to take ex breeding birds as their members want tame “pet” birds.
It sounds like a good idea for breeders to retire their birds to a nice warm aviary when they are no longer of use as breeders…….but a lot of breeders now are “hobbies” breeders with limited space and I can not see many of them giving over aviaries to birds that will cost money and time and give nothing in return, also a lot are “cube” breeders would it really be fair after years of producing eggs for the birds to spend the rest of their lives sat in a cube?
I think the best way forward is to educate parrot owners and future parrot owners in how to care for these wonderful creatures.
Parrot-link offers this kind of information in a friendly way, thanks to the forum I have re homed many birds to great loving homes.
I am given a voice which I use often to fight for birds rights and welfare, and I receive so much support from the members which has helped so many birds and I hope will go on to help even more in the future.
“I know what true unconditional love really is, for I have seen it shining in the eyes of so many, ever grateful for so very little. My work is never done, my home is never quiet. My wallet is always empty, but my heart is always full. I am a bird rescuer”
Hi Charlie,
I found this article very interesting albeit a little confusing as there seems to be a little contradiction within its content, however if your require the view of the UKs largest rescue named The National Parrot Sanctuary Trust i have worked for them and also assissted many others.
Kind regards
Richard
After over 22 years of keeping parrots, mainly ‘unwanted’ birds whose original keepers gave up on them, I’d like to comment on the notions of parrots as ‘pets’ and the processes by which they are produced.
First, considering the numbers of birds that the genuine rescue groups have to deal with, the phrase ‘responsible breeder’ is a contracdiction in terms. The result of many parrots bred for the pet trade is that they are often kept for a few years by their first owner, then they do the rounds of being passed from one unenlightened owner to another, for *decades*, since the birds have a lifespan similar to human beings.
The breeding of yet more parrots just produces even more birds who are going to end up in rescue centres, or being released, when their owners realise that they cannot cope with the bird’s behavioural needs.
The disgusting process of enforced parental deprivation (what breeders call ‘hand-rearing’) is done for essentially commercial reasons. This produces baby birds which show submissive behaviours as immatures. However, when these birds mature at around 2 to 5 years, they often develop severe behavioural problems; these can last for decades. These include self-plucking, screaming, self-mutilation, aggression/frustration and phobic behaviours. This is the true legacy of the pet bird trade.
You *have to be* utterly ignorant of a parrot’s needs before you buy one, and much of the pet trade makes sure that potential buyers know nothing about the behavioural changes which will occur in the submissive baby birds they have been duped into buying from the pet store or breeder. The pet bird trade *relies on* buyer ignorance to make its sales; this is the only way it works. This is why countless parrots end up suffering for decades in peoples homes as ‘pets’.
Birds are often ‘rescued’ after having been left in a garage in darkness for *years*, or have been so cruelly treated by previous owners that they have a morbid fear of humans. The hiddeous processes of hand-rearing, use of cages, wing-clipping and utter social deprivation forced on thousands of parrots every year amounts to a degree of suffering which is incalculable. Anyone who claims to care about parrots would have absolutely nothing to do with breeding them in captivity, when there are so many traumatised birds already desperately in need of good homes.
While there are a few really good sanctuaries in the UK, there are also many sham outfits with flashy websites, just ready to take your birds. And why might this be? Well, these ’sanctuaries’ are just dealers. They get given birds for nothing, make false promises about giving the bird a good home for life, then sell it on for several hundred pounds at a time. Much of the parrot breeding world is full of this sort of behaviour, while most people who keep these birds have absolutely no understanding, in scientific terms, of bird behaviour and their own bird’s behavioural needs. I get calls about people wanting to give me their birds all the time. The plight of parrots in the UK is grim, and the suffering for many of these birds is endless. I, and a few colleagues are working to improve these conditions, if you want to help, you can contact me via my website. But please, if you want a parrot, don’t give money to a breeder for one. Do your homework and see if you can take in a rescued bird. In the right hands, and when parrots have the company of other parrots, with accomodation big enough for themn to fly around in all day, they can cope quite well with captivity. See Charlie’s earlier interview with Karen of Foster Parrots for more info on this issue.
Greg Glendell
http://www.greg-parrots.co.uk
IS this the same Greg Glendall who used to breed birds? And now preaches against his past doings!
What is mr Glendalls history in birds ,from the beginning?
Hello David,
Yes, it is the same Mr Glendell, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain my stance. Like a lot of people, as we find out more facts, our stance should change as we take on board the new information. In the early 1990s I used to breed some birds, as I have mentioned in my parrot-care books. These were part-parent-raised blue-fronted Amazons and P-P-r Timneh greys. All of these birds were fostered out at no cost to the fosterer; and I still own all the birds I have ever bred. I have never sold an birds in my life, and do not really agree with the idea of sentient creatures being treated as goods and chattles. At the time, in the early 1990s, I did not appreciate the scale of the problem regarding ‘unwanted’ parrots. This being due mainly to the fact that most people fail to keep a parrot for more than 6 years, while knowing full well that many of these birds have a similar lifespan to a human.
I did quite a bit of research into the unwanted parrot problem, including the issues of parental deprivation, used by breeders to produce ‘cuddle-tame’ so-called ‘hand-reared’ baby parrots for the pet trade. These birds are sold, generally to gullible buyers, with the seller having a vested interest in the buyers’ ignorance of the behavioural problems caused by the hand-rearing (parental deprivation) process employed by most who breed parrots for the pet trade.
So in 1996 I ceased breeding any birds at all and changed my stance based on the facts as they came to light. It is not the function of parrots to be deprived of their parents when breeding. But more than this, it is not responsible, nor ethical, to breed parrots when there are already far too many birds out there which have been dumped by their first owners, following the behavioural problems caused by the very people who bred the birds.
Some so-called rescue groups and sanctuaries are still not against breeding and much of the parrot rescue/sanctuary world is rife with tricksters and fraudsters who rely on impressive websites to take in ‘unwanted’ birds for free, then sell them on for a several hundred pounds when they think the bird’s donor has lost interest in the fate of their bird. Fortunately, there are a few genuine rescue/sanctuary groups out there and I, and a few others are working with them to overcome the problems of the commercial ‘rescuers’ who work in tandem with breeders to obtain cheap ‘unwanted’ birds for breeding.
No *genuine* rescue group or parrot sanctuary would have anything to do with breeding these non-domesticated creatures, given the sheer numbers of unwanted, traumatised and parentally-deprived birds out there who will have chronic behavioural problems for decades. I am prepard to work with any groups or individuals who are oppossed to the breeding of these birds where they are used as ‘pets’. In truth, all breeding does is make yet more problems for countless thousands of more parrots for many decades down the line. And those problems are picked up by the few genuine sanctuaries out there who truly understand the scale and nature of this problem for these amazing birds.
Greg Glendell
Although I would agree with the majority of the views proposed by GG(above), especially regarding “rescues” breeding more birds, I work on the basis that people WILL want to keep parrots as pets,and there will be breeders to supply them,regardless of his views and therefore it is best to give potential owners as much information and support as possible even if it means trying to persuade them against the purchase in the first instant.
I am still unsure what the authors above are wanting, is DW saying its ok to breed and if so for what? The pet trade or breeders….GG is saying he disagrees with breeding parrots totally, am I correct?
These are very interesting subjects brought on by both authors, one of the points I raise here is there seems to be quite a lot of anonymity here. Who are the groups we should support, who are the fraudsters with impressive websites that sell parrots? surely we should seek to sort this issue out first.
Is Mr Glendell saying we should stop having parrots as pets?
DW spoke on his feelings of cube breeders and that birds should be allowed to fly which i presume he means that he is against these barbaric farming tools, yet when you look on his parrotlink forum he has links to photographs of what looks like his own birds and his favourite Mealy Amazon and they look to me as though they are in very similar suspended flights, take a look http://photobucket.com/albums/e309/lidiot/
What seems confusing to the general pet keeper and me is all the anti parrot keepers/breeders/rescues etc are people who actually own parrots and make their living from them?
See why we are confused?
I cannot speak for GG but I’m sure that if “Richard” was to read my own site thoroughly then he would be perfectly clear as to my opinions. Rather than abuse the kind hospitality offered by this blog he is free to attack me on my own site if that is his wish.
Gents, this is turning into an argument that is probably not all that useful or interesting to the majority of our readers, and I don’t think that a resolution is likely anytime soon. These issues are highly contentious and as neither Richard or David Burns has left email addresses or URLs to follow I can’t even be sure what the motivation behind the comments is. I’m going to close the thread - reluctantly as we don’t generally go in for moderation or blocking comments, but that’s the decision I’m making.