Remember, voting republican is bad for birds. If you refuse to see that then you are deluding yourself.
Corey is a New Yorker who lived most of his life in upstate New York but has lived in Queens since 2008. He's only been birding since 2005 but has garnered a respectable life list by birding whenever he wasn't working as a union representative or spending time with his family. He lives in Forest Hills with Daisy and Desmond Shearwater. His bird photographs have appeared on the Today Show, in Birding, Living Bird Magazine, Bird Watcher's Digest, and many other fine publications. He is also the author of the American Birding Association Field Guide to the Birds of New York.
I didn’t subscribe to this blog for liberal political opinions! When I want a dose of politics I’ll read National Review.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/300546/bald-eagles-fall-green-energy-deroy-murdock
http://www.nationalreview.com/planet-gore/274804/dead-eagle-has-landed-greg-pollowitz
You are right Corey! Let’s make something good happen for birds and all living things. Derail the crazy train!
@Byard: You can feel free to ignore the political posts on the blog. Or, perhaps, you should read them so you can see how the Republican House of Representatives is cutting funding for bird conservation. This has nothing to do with being liberal – it has to do with caring about birds.
@jonnel: Thanks and I wholeheartedly agree.
Not sure what Byard is on about. These GOP Congressmen have slashed funding for some of the most critical bird-related pieces of legislation in the nation.
If you’re not willing to take a stand when someone is attempting to destroy something you love, then why do you do it?
Well said Nate. And considering what taking a stand means in this context…thats not really asking for very much.
Hi Corey,
Just wanted to drop a quick note to thank you for your thoughts on the GOP. I can only hope you will continue to make similar posts.
When it comes time to decide between Obama and Romney, hopefully people will be reminded of blithering idiots like you. It should be obvious that the average Democrat needs help finding hiw way across the street.
Oh, and before you start saying I hate you and your fellow liberals, you’re wrong. I feel sorry for you pathetic little creeps.
@Nate and Felonious Jive: I know, right?
@Terry Miller: Thank you for that illuminating contribution. For the record, I am significantly further left than liberal. Also for the record, I hope people do think of this post when it comes time to vote – a Republican Congress with Romney in the White House would be a disaster for the environment.
Many people identify strongly and emotionally with their party. When you attack their party they take it as an attack on themselves and they’ll tune you out, even if you’re saying something they agree with.
People come here because they’re interested in, and presumably care about, birds. Tell them why this issue is important to birds, and therefore them, and then help them figure out for themselves where their representatives and party leadership fall on this issue.
This stuff is too important for playground name-calling. Do you want to win points with people who already agree with you or do you want to convince people who may be receptive to your ideas but don’t yet realize it?
I’m a centrist, but the behavior of most of the right-wing acolytes online makes me want to hang a hammer and sickle on my front door.
My dad was as right-wing as they get (had a stint in the John Birch Society), but was also a nature lover. He was a member of Audubon and the Sierra Club. He understood that there was a serious disconnect (euphemism for hypocrisy) between his environmental concerns and those of his political heroes. He kept voting Republican, which means he hated other liberal politics more than he loved the environment, I suppose. But the point is, he never belittled anyone and he didn’t shy away from or react violently to the diatribes against conservatives he read constantly. He listened and debated. In the end he may have come up with a false justification, but he did it civilly, and that counts for something in my book.
Our hobby involves environmental conservation. That’s a fact. It’s also a fact that the left wing supports conservation more than the right. You could make a case that the right has shifted into an outright spiteful and adversarial stance toward even the most sensible environmental concerns that would have had bipartisan support two decades ago. That’s what it is and reacting like a four-year-old won’t change it. You can have conservative principles and still love birds. You can vote for Romney and love birds. But if you’re going to engage in discussions about bird conservation, you should be prepared to have your guy thrown under the bus. Defend him if you must, but infantile attacks generally aren’t the most welcomed rhetorical device.
Also, I looked at all the posts for June. There is one (this one) that is overtly political in even the slightest way. There have been 70 posts in June. 1.4% of June’s posts have had a political agenda. Pretty damning evidence that 10,000 Birds is nothing but a shill for the Democratic Party and has nothing to do with seeing cool birds (98.6% of the posts).
@Ethel: I thought the link was pretty self-explanatory. And anyone who calls themself a republican and doesn’t realize that their party is anti-conservation and anti-environment is just not paying attention or doesn’t care.
@Kirby: Thanks both for your first comment and for your analysis of June’s posts.
Hi Corey, I appreciated seeing the link you provided. I think Kirby made a good point about the rarity of political posts, and also the importance of environmental conservation. Thank you!
In other news- ostriches still hiding their heads in the sand!
@Wendy: Thanks, and I agree!
@Mike: Ha!
@Terry: Wow, lots of hate in that comment. No one calls anyone a “pathetic, little creep” without some serious animosity. I’d be happy to debate the environmental positions of both parties anytime you want. I have a feeling you are WAAAAAAAY in the minority on this site and rightly so. Anyone that claims to love birds and our natural world while voting Republican obviously has their head so far up their ass that they can see daylight past their teeth.
All politicians suck – birds do not!!!
One of these days Terry is going to look around and realize that the common birds he used to love are harder and harder to find, and the places he goes to bird are degraded to to the point of barely hosting a handful of starlings and crows.
And then maybe he/she will realize that the pathetic little creeps were right all along.
Unless he/she’s just a troll and not a birder at all, in which case it’s pretty pathetic to troll a bird blog, dude/lady.
10,000 Birds should make “Pathetic Little Creeps” T-shirts to sell on here and donate the proceeds to the re-election campaigns of noted conservation champions.
Something tells me Terry Miller never got the pony he wanted growing up.
Well Nate, we can’t all be birdbrains like yourself….most folks know how to vote & are probably tired of the entitlements the democrats are giving away to people who don’t deserve it. Who care if the democrats are for the birds…you better start worry about humans & the US failing. You want to save birds, then get groups like Audubon to start paying for trying to create habitat on CHNRSA instead of the money coming out of the taxpayers pocket. How much money has to be spent before they realize it’s weather & predators…not ORVs. Like I’ve said before these birds have never been native to the island so why is it Audubon’s agenda on Federal Land to try & make these birds survive when you have islands further south of Hatteras which is a better habitat & they are surviving. Don’t make any sense to me, but then again I have common sense. By the way, read the article about you on another board how you grew up birding….told you so & I think you resemble that remark!!!
@Jody: Your obsession with Nate is as disturbing as your politics.
@Kirby: Hmm…maybe those T-shirts aren’t a bad idea…
I’m not obsessed with Nate by no means, just like to follow the “LIE TRAIN” he spews about pipping plovers & comments about CHNRSA. Yeah maybe you should get those t-shirts “Pathetic Little Creeps” as it applies to people like Nate & you Corey (should have expected a comment like that from a NY’r). Nate seems to be disoriented at times & it appears he’s been led awry by Audubon & other environmental groups most of his life. “Our actions today shape tomorrow” is a good motto to live by cause if your don’t get Bama out of office, financially you won’t be able to go birding or explore your voyeurism at watching birds mate…WOW cheap porn at it’s best I guess. So get off your socialist/liberal agendas & do something good for humans instead of birds. You do know come under the human group, right??
@Jody: I’ll add your near-illiteracy to the list of disturbing things about you. You are truly a disturbed human being.
I rarely pipe in on such threads but I MUST AGREE with some of Jody’s comment:
“most folks know how to vote & are probably tired of the entitlements the democrats are giving away to people who don’t deserve it.” – Jody
I too am tired of the attitude of entitlement in this country. It has reached epidemic proportions and is destroying our society!!!!
Why does such a small group of people feel they are ENTITLED to make as much money as possible when it comes at the expense of everyone else’s health, well-being, safety, the education of our children, the environments that we all share, the wildlife that has been here for millenia before we were, and many other sacrifices that everyone needs to make so those small few can keep getting richer and more powerful?
The worst part is that those people are in the position to alter public policy when the rest of us just have to fight for the crumbs that remain.
Is this NOT a sense of entitlement?! “I deserve everything because I have the power to take it”
Entitlement is MUCH MORE OF A PROBLEM with the highest “takers of wealth” in our society than from those on welfare and such. By the way, notice my words very carefully – “takers of wealth”. Earners work hard with honesty and integrity to create a product or provide services for a living. Many of the wealthiest in our country have schemed their way to the top, defrauding the public, raping the environment, and manipulating the system to make money because they are “entitled to be rich”. That is disgusting!
Thanks for pointing out the problem of entitlement Jody!
Jody, if you’re not obsessed with me you do a terrible job showing it.
And no, I’m not going to ask you to the homecoming dance so you can shove off now, thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFkzRNyygfk
The official theme song of ” Pathetic Little Creeps”.
Weird coincidence to post a link to Radiohead’s “Creep”- Thom Yorke called it their “Scott Walker” song. He didn’t mean Scott Walker of Wisconsin, though, who coincidentally is another “pathetic little creep”.
And, to bring it back to birds, I saw Sandwich and ROyal Terns today on the flats at Cupsogue, Long Island.
Let’s take a look at a few of things Nate’s New Biggest Fan has to say:
Why worry about birds when humans and the U.S. is failing….uh, well, its obviously not failing that much if you have the time and luxury to stalk a bird blogger (of all people) on the internet. Please, visit someplace like Syria or the Congo and then come back and tell us how we are in such bad shape.
Why worry about birds? Because we want to, and because there are so many biologically ignorant and uneducated people out there who consider a shopping mall to be their native habitat. I assure you their is no shortage of humanity out there concerned with “the liberal agenda” and with people like yourself.
As far as getting conservation organizations to just create habitat, that often requires A) untold millions of dollars and/or B) the actual ability to make magic. And magic, if anyone is wondering, isn’t real.
Unlike what Fox News tells you Jody, Obama is neither the root of all evil nor a savior for environmentalists. In fact, this issue has nothing to do with him, so bringing him up at all reveals just how little you have to contribute here.
That said, you are right about weather and predators an big impact on plovers, but I study plovers on military bases and let me tell you…when a soldier or a tank runs over an egg, it aint gonna hatch! An ATV won’t do anything different.
What this argument comes down to is greedy, selfish people feeling entitled to something that they dont deserve….the ability to run amok on some beaches at the expense of all wildlife in the area.
So let me get this, Seagull Steve, you CARE about wildlife..really!!! Why are you not coming forth in protest of all the animals they are killing to save maybe a handful of birds if your that concerned. Audubon stated they care about all wildlife & their eco-systems, etc….that I don’t believe after seeing them at face value. Even the most well-meaning & deep-pocketed plover protectors can do very little in the face of nature’s whims. And that leaves a question as necessary to ask as it is unpopular to consider: How long do you continue to invest time & money in a species that nature herself seems determined to kill off?
But you’re not for enviro organizations having to PAY for the birds to make habitat…so that’s why the federal government has to fork out the cash?? You talk about entitlements, I don’t think the government should have to pay for habitat when these birds are flourishing elsewhere. There’s no animal that should receive entitlements to be saved…nature takes care of nature, if not they die or go extinct. Humans should just butt out of nature’s business. But they (plovers) are not extinct are they…really to be frank not even threatened, just don’t happen to be located on Hatteras now or ever have been. MAGIC you say…well that’s what Audubon is trying to do, create magic for something that is not or ever going to be there.
Somehow you folks just don’t understand, of course because most of you commenting really have not even been here, so let me explain it to you…when there is a closure…it’s not just ORV’s (which means 4X4 vehicles, not ATV’s like you are referring in your comment big difference & the only plover that has ever been run over has been by NPS not ORV’s..FYI) NOT allowed on the beach…pedestrians cannot access the area either. FYI: The closures around these birds, the beaches that become inaccessible, are immense. But at CHNRSA each chick receives a 1000 meter buffer around them. This translates to a buffer of 2000 meters or 1.2 miles in diameter. This also equates to 776.285 acres, 751.4 football fields, or 33,815,000 square feet, per bird. It would take 31.5 of the Cape Hatteras Lighthouses to cross this buffer or 4.5 Empire State Buildings. With a slight adjustment on the Southern end of the village of Ocracoke, also surrounded by the Seashore, the entire village could be placed in one of these closures with room to spare. These are the largest closures of their kind in the entire country & are unwarranted & unsupported by sound, peer reviewed science. FYI: NCWRC is on record for NOT recommending such large nesting buffers. …If you have never been to CHNRSA you do not understand the terrain, dynamics, access areas, etc. Go there with your family on vacation & drag your fishing gear, cooler, kids toys, chairs, etc (something other than some binoculars/camera) from the limited parking areas available to the beach. If you don’t drive out in an ORV this is your only choice. Better be a world class athlete……..that for sure. And by the way, we don’t have the ability to run amok on the beaches at the expense of all wildlife in the area….there has always been rules/regs as to where we can drive or not…so your comment in incorrect. And now we have to buy a permit to drive on the beach, so access should be available.
So actually if you want to come see the plover(s) with binoculars or take photos you CAN’T because you are not going to be allowed on the beach either. Somewhere along the line, government forgot that the primary purpose of managing an environment is to protect the right of people to a healthy existence. People come first, birds come second. Access to the environment is a universal right of all human beings without distinction or discrimination. Respect for life & universal rights of all humans must be the center of any environmental management & protection program or policy.
I never said Obama was the root of all evil..I just implied he’s just not worth a crap as a President period. And I don’t need FOX News to explain that to me. Most people thought he walked on water….maybe they should have read his book before they voted. Change…yeah he’s brought change….change most folks are not going to be able to afford. Hope you bird folks make a good income, cause you might have to be the ones left to support the rest of us.
To all concern about poor Nathan…I’m just following his posts..not him personally. Have no interest in the bird brain what-so-ever. But I am interested in what lies he is spreading. I’m old enough to be his mother, so sorry Nathan no homecoming dance for you. But if you need a date I could probably fix you up. But I will say this…you are very disrespectful to your elders that’s for sure, especially when they don’t agree with your personal agenda. I was pretty mild mannered on Audubon’s FB page & tried real hard not to stoup to your level of name calling, but you provoked me at times while I was trying to have a civil, intelligent, informed debate which I assumed Audubon encouraged,…I know your parents didn’t bring you up like that, at least I hope not.
So I’ll end with this note: You say we are people feeling entitled to something that we don’t deserve…..well why shouldn’t we deserve it…you folks believe in Entitlements rights, then WE are entitled because this is/was at one time a traditional passage/roadway for many of the locals who lived/born here before the paved highway.
Also a big thank you to Dave MagPong for trying to explain my thoughts to this group.
Hey Jody –
Thanks for the kind shout out. We’re like two ships passing in the night – that’s fine with me ; )
Again – Jody’s comment is filled with absolute genius! (no sarcasm at all!!)
Here comes your ABSOLUTE GENIUS moment in this post:
“Humans should just butt out of nature’s business.”
I think even you and Nate will agree on that point. As a matter of fact, I think that is Nate’s whole point. ORV are a huge injection of of human butt into nature’s business. We definitely should butt out of nature’s business! GREAT POINT JODY!
“How long do you continue to invest time & money in a species that nature herself seems determined to kill off?” Nature “killing things off” is part of the natural system but I think we should do everything in our power to keep people from pushing more species into extinction.
Another great point:
“you folks believe in Entitlements rights, then WE are entitled because this is/was at one time a traditional passage/roadway for many of the locals who lived/born here before the paved highway.”
Keep in mind: European-descended humans and their ORV’s are invasive species to the beaches of North America where Piping Plovers have bred successfully for millenia until OUR unnatural development of beachfront property and seaside resorts for millions pushed said Piping Plovers (Least Terns, Black Skimmers, etc.)closer to extinction than Nature ever desired – even with storms that may cyclically wreak havoc on a local population.
But I must beg to publicly differ with you on two particular comments:
“You talk about entitlements” – I believe you were actually the first one to mention entitlements.
“But they (plovers) are not extinct are they…really to be frank not even threatened,” Of course they are not extinct, that is what the commotion is about (as I understand it) – TO KEEP THEM FROM BECOMING EXTINCT/EXTIRPATED. Their numbers were crashing in recent decades as beach use boomed and encroached upon their breeding areas. Thanks to public policy, hard-working non-profits, and dedicated volunteers their numbers have stabilized somewhat.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/106003127/0
Are you asking why I don’t care about, let me get this straight, wildlife killing wildlife? If you are seriously asking this question, this really shows how sadly uninformed you are on this entire debate.
“How long do you continue to invest time & money in a species that nature herself seems determined to kill off?” – This is a valid question Jody, but in practically every documented extinction (particularly in the U.S.) it doesn’t take a scientist to see that species usually disappear as a result of human overhunting or destruction/degradation of habitat. To claim that “nature” is killing off birds by building beachside condos and having people trash the place is not grounded in any kind of truth at all.
If you cared to actually learn anything about the species you are talking about, Piping Plovers are federally listed throughout their entire range; they are not thriving anywhere they exist. Human activity, and the associated subsequent increase in predator populations (crows, ravens, skunks, etc do very well where people leave garbage on beaches), comprise the vast majority of the threat. So I am totally with you on that one, humans should butt out of nature’s business and let them be.
I never said I was against private organizations shelling out money, I am all for it. But there is a huge difference between “creating” and “preserving” habitat. Keeping trucks off a beach is not “creating” habitat by any stretch of the imagination.
Your insistence that plovers are not “native” to these beaches makes no sense. Polar bears are not native to Hatteras. Piping Plovers have been there for thousands of years, thats as native as it gets. I can’t comment on the specifics of the area beyond that, as I am not a “native” North Carolinian.
As all others have said…your constant fixation with Nate is disturbing, regardless of your age. And once again, we aren’t talking about Obama.
I never said a thing about Entitlement Rights, but that is good of you to admit that is what we are dealing with in your case. The tradition of having a road in the area is an unimpressive reason (at best) to want to squeeze out half the areas wildlife, especially since you have a paved highway at your disposal. If you haven’t noticed, there are far too many damn roads in the world; but if you are one of those people who would rather see traffic than not, we’re not going to be able to agree on much.
Jody says – If you have never been to CHNRSA you do not understand the terrain, dynamics, access areas, etc. Go there with your family on vacation & drag your fishing gear, cooler, kids toys, chairs, etc (something other than some binoculars/camera) from the limited parking areas available to the beach.
This is sort of the crux of the matter. Laziness.
Lots of places that are worth visiting are difficult to get to. You don’t get to take an escalator to the top of El Capitan. You don’t drive the Appalachian Trail. If you have difficulty accessing some places, you go to more accessible places.
One of the loudest argument against the seasonal closures on CHNS has to do with people complaining that they can’t get to their favorite spots (i.e. they can’t walk to their spots). So what? You’re not allowed to drive off-road in Yellowstone, either.
But you know what you do? You go to the spots that are available, just like at every other public beach in the nation. And at CHNS there are always beaches open somewhere. And you stop whining when you finally need to pay a nominal fee to keep the beach you claim to love so much pristine.
And if you truly care about Hatteras like you claim you do, you especially stop going on the various fishing listservs and lying about the true state of beach closures so that people stop coming, businesses close, and you can blame it all on birds. Of all the things Jody et al love to do, that one gets me the most.
And no, Jody, you, who posts drivel on the blogs of my friends and family, absolutely do not get to pull the “your parents didn’t bring you up like that” card. I respect elders, and all people, who deserve respect. And you and your pals who go to the Audubon North Carolina Facebook page and attempt to berate the fine, and underpaid, staffers of that organization and make that online meeting place an uncomfortable place for those who support Audubon NC are bullies who absolutely DO NOT deserve respect.
And if you can’t handle anyone standing up for ANC and their supporters, than you know exactly where you can go.
And here I was trying to get some idea of what it means to be a birder & all I get is folks trying to belittle me for expressing my opinion. You know folks at the beach would be more than happy to teach a newbe something about the sport. But I apparently don’t get that warm fuzzy feeling here. What I can’t follow Nate to learn or get a general idea of his knowledge of birds without critisim from the peanut gallery. Guess I can’t make friends here then..correct, maybe I should bring my own friends. Afterall the only thing I was trying to do was have a civil conversation as to why you folks think that birds are so important. But here’s a fact for you, because not one of you have expressed this little tidbit… plovers never made good eating for our ancestors. But the plover’s delicate feathers were highly prized by 19th-century hat makers. Being ridiculously cute almost led plovers down the path of the dodo. So maybe it doesn’t all have to do with ORV’s…what do you think??? Give you something to think about…
Bullshit, Jody. You came here for the same reason you were constantly on the NC Audubon Facebook page – to be a troll. We call trolls out here.
Total bullshit. If you truly cared about learning about birds, then why did you join the Audubon NC page and immediately start bullying birders? Do you really think “the folks on the beach” would give the time of day to a person who appears and immediately starts belittling their hobby? Do you really think that’s an appropriate way to start a “civil conversation”? I have to believe you’re smarter than that, Jody.
If you want to convince yourself you’re a victim, I can’t stop you. But everyone here knows exactly how this started, and everyone else is just going to wonder why you came to a bird blog to pick a fight you don’t want to finish.
Give it a rest, troll.
This is not the site for me. I just wanted to learn a little more about birds…not politics.
Again you all neglected a reply to my comment: The plover’s delicate feathers were highly prized by 19th-century hat makers. Being ridiculously cute almost led plovers down the path of the dodo. So maybe it doesn’t all have to do with ORV’s…what do you think??? Give you something to think about…….But according to the MASS Audubon Society, the Atlantic Coast population overall has curiously been stuck at a plateau for the past five years. This despite intensive efforts by wildlife agencies & communities all along the East Coast & millions of dollars spent every year on protection & management. There are lots of theories about why the region’s population stopped growing, but the generally accepted one is that the biggest threat to plovers these days comes not from humans but from nature itself: predators such as crows and foxes, storms that wash away nests, and unseasonably hot or cold weather that kills them. In 1986, with merely 800 or so pairs of Atlantic Coast plovers left, the federal government added them to its list of “threatened” species. The designation indicated their status was not as dire as “endangered,” but it nevertheless ensured them the legal protections.
Basically I really wasn’t bullying Audubon, just expressing my opinions about their agenda. I hope that “we the people” are still allowed freedom of speech in this land, but correct me if I’m wrong which I’m sure this group will do.
I truly think that if all of us took the time to learn a little more about each other’s hobbies, that maybe we could come to some kind of compromise that would be acceptable by all. You see, (Nathan…I’m going to use you as my reference here because you’re the one I’m more familiar with because of our banter…so this isn’t directed at you) fishing in a way when you look at it is kind of similar to birding. We have to search the beaches looking for the fish, fish are not always at the same spot everyday & neither are birds, you have to search wooded areas, etc. We drive on the beach because there are over 60 miles of beach here making it impractical to visit without an off-road vehicle, especially with young kids, the elderly, or the disabled….no one could ever walk 60 miles of beach..in search of our illusive catch, neither can you in search of your birds. Only difference, we have a lot more equipment to carry around & family items to bbq, recreate, etc other than a pair of binoculars or camera. There’s no way any of us could walk all those miles but not out of laziness as you refer & those in disagreement, come on down & show me something. Another point I want to make is that weekly access report which you so freely refer to Nathan citing that there’s places open, not all the beach is closed….which comes from NPS on Wed/Thurs, well by Friday things can change at the drop of a hat…which means the beach area you wanted to fish or areas you visited as a child with your parent & you want to bring your kids there, might not be open to you upon your arrival. Now tell me, really… how would you feel, if you traveled 6 to 14 hours only getting to your destination & not be able to access an area. I really don’t think that you would be a very happy camper. Now don’t misunderstand me here…I don’t have a problem with buying a permit as most don’t, as well & some of the areas being closed for the birds. I’m not really a bird hater by no means. I feel that there should be some allowable access on all the ramps & that the buffers in general are too big. I feel that somehow CHNRSA is kind of getting the shaft & being treated like a red-headed stepchild. I’ve seen in other areas, where NPS puts something like sand-fencing around the closure to keep the birds from running out into the path of traffic, with no ramp closure enforced at all, the whole beach is accessible….well why don’t they do that here?? Residents have grown to accept the [beach] restrictions, realizing it’s the way things are, but what they won’t accept is to be totally kicked off the beach. Also to make another point here…when there’s a closure, pedestrians (sunbathers, shell hunters, bird watchers, etc) are not allowed either.
With 1000 meter buffers for a 2.5 inch bird is a little ridiculous (and that’s for one bird, if there are 2 birds, then each bird has 1000 meter buffers) thereby closing the entire beach (see one of my posts above to get a picture of what a 1000 meter buffer actually relates to in size). Now how would you feel, if the woods you planned to explore for a certain bird with your son & that bird could only be found at that particular woods only you couldn’t get access there because a threathened fish was spawning thereby making that particular wooded area closed. Would you like me to tell you, well there’s other woods open so go there? I think you would at some point in time start to resent that particular fish. Sometimes in order to understand, one has to put themselves in the other person’s shoes before we are so quick to judge.
@Deb: If you were here just for learning about birds then why did you click on a week-old post about politics? You had to go out of your way to get to this post and to comment.
@Jody: Just because you want this thread to be about you and your issues doesn’t mean that we have to make it about what you want. You are a troll and if I have learned anything in my years blogging it is that I can mock and ignore trolls at will. Yes, you have freedom of speech, or, in your case, “freedumb” of speech, but on privately owned forums, like this blog, we can decide to ban you or ignore you. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean that we have to host your ignorance, straw-man arguments, and general trollery. Now, kindly shove off before the ban-hammer comes down.
Hey Jody –
You use a very good analogy for us to explore the crux of the problem.
I can tell you that, as a birder, we are constantly restricted to places we can and can not access. General ethics of birding dictate that we remain on the actual trails when at public parks, National Wildlife Refuges, and other natural habitats. This makes it virtually impossible to SEE birds that we would LOVE to SEE – Kentucky Warblers immediately come to mind. The nest on the ground in forested areas with dense underbrush. We do not (should not) traipse all through the vegetation in our efforts to get a good look at the bird, instead we are restricted to the trails.
The trails equate to the road that help you access the beaches. The untouched vegetation is similar to the beach – it is the critical habitat where the wildlife thrives. (To be honest, I would like to know more about ALL pedestrian traffic being excluded from the closed beaches as well.)
I have been out with my kids on many occasion to see certain birds, only to find a particular trail closed due to nesting eagles, owls, or something.There is a moment of “aww man – now what?” but our conversation often switches to the good news of nesting eagles and owls. In short, birders ARE familiar with limitations on their explorations and excursions.
Keep in mind – besides the potential of killing a bird or destroying a nest, the Piping Plovers (and other beach nesters) may bypass otherwise suitable nesting sites when they are met with such activity when they arrive in the area. This would be virtually impossible to quantify.
With regards to the threat posed by the millinery industry, your right about that being a historic factor in a decline of the species but, even after said millinery activity was outlawed, the exponential increase of beach activity (volume of people, frequency of repeated trips, development of new resort areas, and use of vehicles on beaches) perpetuated the threat to the delicate niche of these birds.
Yes, every few years or so a storm MAY impact a breeding season but, by and large, the Piping Plover is a species of concern due to human activity for over a century.
Please give me an honest answer to this question:
IF we were to put personal inconveniences aside, do you think it is RIGHT (ethical, appropriate, responsible) to protect a species which WE (not you, Nate, or myself – just people in general) have pushed almost to extinction? YES or NO?
If your answer is NO, please explain why it is OK for humans to destroy a population without any responsibility to fix the problem?
If your answer is YES, then we have more in common than not. Perhaps we should all come to the table and discuss the issue rationally and creatively.
There are problems with things like “sand-fencing” including the fact that birds fly over the fence or can fit through gaps in the fence. One of the biggest problems that I personally have witnessed is when beach-walkers bring their dogs on the beach and let them run free – even when they are NOT legally permitted on the beach AT ALL during nesting season.
Admittedly, I am approaching this from outside NC but, based on many hours volunteering as a shorebird steward in NJ, it seems part of the problem in many coastal areas is that using less stringent regulations has not worked because SOME people (fishermen, birders, etc.) refuse to follow the less rigid rules (ya know, you give them an inch, they take the entire frigging miles! figuratively speaking). As a result, tougher rules are needed to maintain a modicum of safety for the birds, due to the transgressions of a relatively few idiots out there.
(In full disclosure: I have also watched totally disgraceful beach behavior with ORV’ers in Wrightsville Beach, Carolina Beach, and the Fort Fisher area)
Based on a few comments in your last message, I think we’re not that far apart in our core beliefs – just coming from different perspectives.
@Dave Mag…I would have to say YES, but to a certain point in time. But there’s no point in explaining because apparently Corey doesn’t want anyone on this site who might be interested in learning about birds, or learning what makes a good birder…can’t believe his comment to Deb. Just so you know I was born in Massachusetts (but thats neither here or there) point is that I’m a Yankee just like Corey…but you can definetely tell your what the South refer to as a “Dam Yankee”. Typical NY’r attitude!
@Jody: You came here, call Nate and others names, insist on everyone talking about your topic, which is irrelevant to this post, and in general act like a troll, just like you have in other locations. And then you have the nerve to question my responses? There are thousands of posts on this blog dedicated specifically to learning about birds but Deb, of all the posts, chose to comment on one of the few about politics. That would make no sense at all if she was sincere.
Finally, the management program at CHRNSA is a compromise. Personally, I think beaches should be closed entirely to vehicles but you may notice that I’m not ranting and raving all over the place about how ORVs are still allowed at all. That is because I understand what a compromise is. Sadly, like our current republicans, you see the compromise management plan and want it further compromised and when you don’t get your way you resort to name-calling and bullying. Just go back and look at your first comment here – you started it off with an insult and ended it with another implied insult!
/troll-feeding
@Corey – Jody makes herself the victim. That’s how she operates. She goes out of her way to seek out arguments that she can’t even support, and then claims you’re the one seeking out the argument when it turns badly. As far as trolls go it’s a very original plan, you know.
So how dare you, Corey, question the motives of a kindly old imbecile who wandered to a politics thread on your blog just to talk about birds. Can’t you see that when she types “Nathan” she means “birds”. I mean, it’s so clear!!
For shame. For shame.
/confusingjody