I am not anti-hunting. I won’t pick a fight with hunters, as long as they eat what they shoot and don’t use lead ammunition. However, I will pick a fight with the Rip Van Winkle Rod and Gun Club in Palenville, New York, which is sponsoring their fourth annual “Crow Down” March 29-30, 2014.
The “Crow Down” is a “hunting contest” where both adults and children slaughter as many crows as they possibly can in two days. Why do they do this? Look at the Maryland-based website Crow Busters, although I warn you you’ll need a strong stomach for the photographs. Here is a direct (and unedited) quote:
“… keep in mind the main reason why experienced crow hunters got into the sport in the first place, Fun. Plain old fashioned Fun.”
Some people think it’s just plain fun to kill enormous numbers of animals and pile up their bodies, and when there’s no “bag limit” it’s legal to do so. These people are overwhelmingly undereducated (and I don’t mean formal education) males, although occasionally you’ll find a comparable female going along for the ride (think Sarah Palin – no relation to Palenville, although for this particular event the nearly identical name is both handy and appropriate).
A hero of the Rip Van Winkle Rod & Gun Club is – no doubt – Bob Aronsohn, who lives in Kansas and in December 2013 celebrated killing his 150,000th crow. On the website he reminisces fondly about his “best hunt,” where he killed 3,125 crows in 9 days, bringing to mind the days when people slaughtered seemingly endless flocks of passenger pigeons and herds of buffalo.
Is this hunting, or is it simply a bloody massacre? How do you classify these contests? And what do you do about events like the one sponsored by the Rip van Winkle Rod and Gun Club, where participants bring their children, supply them with guns, and actually instruct them in the art of stack-the-corpses slaughter?
The infamous Labor Day Pigeon Shoot was held in Hegins, Pennsylvania from 1921 until it was closed down in 1998. Live pigeons were trapped on city streets or bought at auction, held for days without food or water, then catapulted into the air as live skeet. Wounded birds were left to crawl away into the woods; sometimes, during breaks, children were encouraged to run across the field, scoop them up, and tear their heads off.
Eventually the operators of the shoot were sued, the case climbed through the courts, and the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled unanimously against it, calling it “cruel and moronic.” It was sent back to trial court, but by then the yearly event had become such a media circus – with live TV coverage and protesters taking down the license plates of shooters’ vehicles – that the sponsors ended it.
One hopes this is the direction in which all killing contests are headed.
“People say there are too many crows and they eat all the crops,” says Missy Runyan, director of the Friends of the Feathered and Furry Wildlife Center in nearby Hunter, NY. “This is baloney. There are as many crows as the land can support, and they gather because people leave their garbage all over the place.”
Runyan has no problem with hunting; she gives wildlife and gun safety presentations to Rod and Gun clubs across the state. She owns an arsenal of rifles, and has been licensed to carry a handgun for 17 years.
“What I want to know is: a hundred feet away, how can these people tell the difference between a crow and a raven, which is a protected species?” she asks. “And how do you keep the kids safe when you’ve got dozens of people in the woods, blasting away? You shoot a bullet up, sooner or later it has to come down. How do you know it’s not going to come down on some kid’s head?”
The Crow Down does not require non-toxic ammunition, either, which means soon the woods will be filled with lead.
Outlawing these contests is within the purview of state government, not the Department of Environmental Conservation. New York Senators Jack Martins (R-Mineola) and Tony Avella (D-Queens) have co-sponsored a bill (#S.4074) which would make it unlawful for “any person to organize, conduct, promote or participate in any contest or competition where the objective of such contest or competition is to take the greatest number of wildlife.” I urge everyone concerned about the concept of mass slaughter in this day and age – especially when it’s being taught to children – to contact them and express support for this bill, which would protect not only crows, but all the unfairly maligned species that have been targeted for hundreds of years. Groups across the country, including Project Coyote in California, are fighting similar battles.
I have friends who hunt, and every one of them is disgusted by events like “Crow Down” and consider them bad publicity for true hunters. The poster for this event shows a dozen cartoon birds on their backs, feet in the air, and trumpets the headline, “Wanted: Dead or Alive.”
Read your own headline, take a look at the buffalo skulls pictured at right, and wake up, Rip Van Winkle. It’s not the 1800s anymore.
It’s a pretty pathetic form of hunting, kinda reminds me of grind quests in computer game quests whee you have to bring twenty newt tails. At least in a game you build up your stats! . I’ve never understood quite why so many people are hostile to corvids (this even includes some birders!).
That said, I’m not sure what comparing hunters to serial killers adds to the conversation.
So much for evolution. So much for mercy. So much for respect for life.
Suzy Heck has the right idea: What you shoot, you kill. What you kill, you eat. Otherwise, you’re just one more caveman who refuses to move forward, not only in your thinking, but also your actions.
Suzy, that’s exactly the point I’m trying to make. You describe conscientious hunters who respect the land and its creatures.
Duncan, I tried to make the point that serial killers are NOT hunters, they have crossed the line into pathology and simply enjoy making lots of animals die painfully. I consider enjoying mass slaughter pathology. However, your point was a good one in that I don’t want my point to be misunderstood and the discussion sidetracked. Thanks!
Keith VanRoy: My text does not label the photos as images of the RVW club. If my perception is a “grossly negligent and exaggerated representation,” can tell us what actually goes on, since I assume you’re a member? My definition of mass slaughter is going out in the woods with the plan to gun down as many of a species as you can find. The eventual numbers depend only on your “luck” and shooting ability.
That is totally pathological and unbelievable in this day and age.
Sick Mother Fuckers.
I hate this type of contest. Where I live, gun shops keep having coyote and prairie dog hunts, both of which I find apalling.
I thought you could only be a serial killer if you killed other human beings? While you are entitled to your opinion I don’t happen to share your opinion.
I know this subject upsets you but crows do in fact create a health hazard when they congregate in the tens of thousands or more. You don’t have to worry about crows becoming extinct because they are considered the forth smartest bird in the world! Pigeons like the passenger pigeon were dunces compared to a crows intelligence.
I on average will shoot anywhere from 4 to 5 thousand crows during the crow season, is this a slaughter, it depends on how you look at it. I hunt in areas where they are a real problem where there numbers can range into the hundreds of thousands. If I shoot four to five thousand each season that is only a drop in the bucket. Most crow hunters are very lucky if they shoot a thousand crows each season so there numbers are quite safe believe me.
Wing shooting is the sport of Kings. Some folks like to try there hand at golf or tennis where you have to have very good eye to hand coordination, shooting a flying crow is no different, it takes years to get good.
The dead crows do not go to waste in the field, other animals feed on them for days after a crow hunt. Foxes, coons, coyotes, possums and hawks all feed on the dead crows. When the feed gets scares these animals get a free meal or two out of the deal!
Bob Aronsohn, you must have read my first post right as it came off the press. As you can see from the site now, I deleted all references to serial killers because I realized they would elicit responses such as yours. There is a documented link between animal abuse and serial killers. Ted Bundy watched his grandfather torture animals. You may not consider shooting crows torture; do you consider flinging starving pigeons into the air so people beneath them can gun them down torture? My point was not the definition of torture, or whether you consider the mass killing of extended families of wild crows to be a more noble pursuit than shooting tame pigeons. My point was that racking up numbers of bodies in this day and age is – at the very least – disturbing to most people, and that teaching children that mass slaughter is fun is both reprehensible and dangerous.
Please take a look at my next post, “Crows, Contest Killing and Communication” where I address both your views on free meals for other wildlife and your sports analogies. I look forward to your response.
Hello Suzie,
I just saw a photo of you, you are a very nice looking young gal.
On the subject of Ted Bundy, Ted Bundy was a psychopath who came from a very dysfunctional family. It turns my stomach as well when I think of people who torture animals; we are on the same page in this regard.
My two dogs are like my kids since my wife of 31 years passed away 9 years ago.
Anyone who would derive any pleasure from torturing an animal is a very twisted person with a lot of problems. I can see how they could make the transition to committing homicide.
The vast majority of hunters are very decent people they just have a different life style than the folks that think they are all just killers.
I happen to love volume shooting where you have to maintain your focus in order to keep hitting the flying birds. It’s also a test of endurance firing hundreds of rounds of ammo during the course of several hours or more. It all boils down to what a person likes to do.
In closing I would like to say that it’s not personnel when I shoot flying crows out of the air, they are just a target, I don’t get hung up on which family member of a crow family I have just taken out. We are talking about “vermin” not domestic animals or birds!
If I lived close to you I would be happy to lend a hand in any way I could when it came to helping injured birds or animals get back on there feet. I think what you do is a noble endeavor.
Bob,
I am a licensed wild bird rehabilitator, you have personally killed over 150,000 wild birds, and you respond to my outrage by saying I’m a “very nice looking young gal”? Seriously?
I cannot get a single crow hunter to answer my direct questions/statements, including you.
I say am not anti-hunting, you respond “the majority of hunters are very decent people.” I question the toxic lead you leave in the environment, you do not respond at all. Secondary lead poisoning kills enormous numbers of protected wildlife each year. How much lead do you think you’ve personally left behind?
You say crows are not birds. Actually, they are. History is filled with cautionary tales of people who re-classify others – be they animals or fellow humans – as “vermin.” They believe that killing great numbers of them will solve all kinds of problems. Inevitably, it doesn’t.
My hunting friends go out, shoot a deer, bring it home, and use every part of it. They have respect for the animal and for the environment. Many of them have switched to copper ammunition after seeing x-rays of lead fragments scattered throughout a deer or a wild boar. They are repulsed by killing contests.
If you were lending me a hand in my noble endeavor and someone brought me a gunshot crow, what would you do? If you helped me treat the injuries of “vermin,” wouldn’t you be a hypocrite?
You say it “all boils down to what you like to do.” With enough luck and perseverance, eventually it will all boil down to what you are legally allowed to do.
Hello Suzie,
I meant what I said, you are a very attractive gal.
I will answer your questions that you have been unable to get thus far.
1. shooting lead shot. I hunt in very remote areas where lead shot is not an issue. I have eaten waterfowl killed with lead shot for almost half my life when it was still legal to shoot it and I’m still kicking!
2. Yes, I have shot over 150,000 crows over a 40 year period. I just love to hunt crows because they are very smart and you don’t do well all the time on them. I make no apology for this because it’s perfectly legal.
3. I can understand your outrage because this rubs you wrong I’m well aware. I know you will find this hard to believe but I had a pet crow when I lived in South Dakota in high school. Yup, I hunted crows then too but still liked my pet because he was a pet, he was not wild. A neighbor’s kid killed him with a pellet rifle while he was sitting in my uncles garage. The next day I found that sob after school and we had a real meeting of the minds to put it mildly. For the rest of the year that kid would walk on the other side of the street when he saw me coming! So, I know where your coming from with your outrage. You more than likely find my logic rather strange and perhaps it is to some people.
4. Yup, I’ve left more lead in the toolies than most but have seen no drop in the wildlife over the past 40 odd years.
5. I don’t hunt crows to solve any problems, I just like to hunt them. Crows are vermin, they kill countless song birds still in the nest. They fly back to there own nest with the young of other birds where they tear them apart and feed them to there young. Would you describe this as torture? They do the same to waterfowl when they are nesting. They eat turtle eggs as well. Getting back to the crows eating song birds the way they do is repulsive but that is just the way it is, same as me killing the crows for sport.
6. You bet I would help you if you had a crow with a broken wing and I would not feel like a hypocrite at all. What percentage of birds with broken wings that you treat ever fly again?
7. Yup you are right about legally allowed to do. To many lawyers, judges and people with big bucks like to sport hunt so I don’t see it going away any time soon.
8. I am not patronizing you when I said I would enjoy helping you helping birds and animals that have been hurt and in need of help, and yes, most hunters are decent people.
9. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.
Sincerely,
Bob Aronsohn
Bob, Just curious;
What makes you think that shooting in very remote locations magically negates the effects of lead ammo?
The fact that you have consumed animals killed by lead shot with no negative effects means zero to me or anyone else with a brain. We have all met the occasional person that has smoked their whole lives and yet seems fine. But, that doesn’t erase the thousands of people who die everyday from smoking related illnesses. The scientific studies are pretty clear on the devastating effects of lead ammo, your own conclusions notwithstanding.
You say you make no apologies for killing crows and admit that you don’t kill them to solve any problems. This is the first statement you have made that rings true, but of course you later add that you are really killing them to protect songbirds.
Here you are, just a selfless man working to protect our nations songbirds from evil crows.
Very brave of you.
Furthermore you describe being very angry when your pet crow (a species you call vermin in the very next paragraph)) is shot and killed by a neighbors kid. You say this bothered you because the crow was a pet, not wild. Maybe you have neglected to consider that the wild crows that you kill are capable of feeling the same fear, love, pain, joy and grief, that your pet crow was.
You are right, crows are very intelligent. In fact, they are thought to be one of the smartest species on earth.
However, if you really need to kill a crow to prove that you can best one in a battle of wits, you’re probably not all that bright to begin with.
If you really want to demonstrate your mental superiority over an animal, you could start by understanding why you shouldn’t feel the need to kill them.
The fact that killing them is legal is not the issue that I am addressing here. I am addressing the moral and ethical considerations of your actions, and maybe you need to as well.
Wild animals have a difficult existence. On a daily basis they face life and death situations that are difficult for humans to relate to. We rarely face a life and death situation and if we do, we become front page news and are lauded as heros. No human would survive even a week as a wild animal before we ran home crying to our mommies. Wild animals deal with exposure, starvation, disease, territory disputes, loss of habitat, predators and more, all while trying to find mates and raise their young.
The last thing they need is some emotionally stunted jackass with a fragile ego blasting away at them.
So remember that the bird you kill for ‘fun’ feels the same trauma and heartache that you would if intruders ran into your home and began shooting your family.
Also keep in mind that it’s pretty obvious who the real vermin is on this planet, and it’s certainly not the crows.
Ahhhhhh lead poisoning explains the lack of empathy, you should be ashamed if yourself bob.
Your reasoning is not based on fact or science.
Bob:
Do you realize you are writing to me in a public forum?
As Keli pointed out in her eloquent and passionate response, just because you personally do not see the effects of lead does not mean it doesn’t exist. If you eat a duck shot with lead and a two-pound hawk eats a duck shot with lead, the hawk will suffer more than you. Do the math.
Here is a video made by Anthony Prieto, a life-long hunter for whom I have great respect and admiration:
https://vimeo.com/37272263
I would be interested to hear your reaction to it.
Greetings Keli & Suzie,
If you knew me Keli you would know that I am pretty down to earth and don’t have a fragile ego as you suspect. I’m an out going type of guy who loves people, unless they shoot my pet crow and then things can get ugly lol.
You talk about lead poisoning in regard to wildlife, the only evidence I have seen where lead shot is a problem is in areas where puddle ducks dabble in shallow water with a hard bottom and they ingest the lead in this manner. In the wild your theory (far from shallow water with a hard bottom) is full of hot air. If either of you spent as much time in the field as I have you and the pinheads that do these studies would realize that the undergrowth covers up any lead for any bird or animal to eat. In regard to hawks that might perish while eating dead crows is more hot air in my opinion. To the contrary, I see more hawks now than I did 20 years ago. In fact the hawks come to the hunting area when they hear the sound of the shooting because they have become conditioned to know a free meal is on the way.
Keli, I just like to hunt them, it’s true that every crow you kill you do save other wildlife in the process. I’m not on any crusade I just enjoy the thrill of the chase is all.
Wholly cow Keli, when you mention crows feeling love, pain, joy & grief I think you are over thinking this subject way to much. I can tell by the way you write that you are a kind hearted person, you too Suzie. I’m kind hearted as well, it was only yesterday that an olive sparrow flew into the window of my home and knocked himself out. I was sitting on the back porch when I heard the thud. The two dogs ran over to investigate and I could see the sparrow was still blinking his eyes but could not move after impact. I got him up so he would not go into shock and held him in my hand while stroking his head and neck to calm him down. He pooped in my hand so I knew he was starting to come around. After about 25 minutes I took him outside and he flew away with a very explosive start headed west. That made me feel good to save the little guy. The thing that both of you fail to grasp is that a person can love wildlife and also kill it at the same time. Suzie’s friends who deer hunt love seeing the white tails but also enjoy hunting them.
Crows have no problem at all when habitat changes they are far to smart, they just move to a different area.
Keli, emotionally stunted and a fragile ego, it is quite clear to me that you talk about things you know nothing about. You don’t know me so how can you make such an asinine statement.
Sorry, Bob, but the data IS there concerning lead poisoning caused by scavenging. Last year in NYS, the conservation department collected 10 Bald Eagles that had died duet to elevated lead from scavenging on carcasses. The last one had TRIPLE the lethal level in its system and was found on carcasses in which lead was found. Instead of arguing about this, it would be better for all involved to change over to copper ammunition. A concerted effort by all sportsmen (and sportswomen) and conservationists to affect this change is needed.
Suzie,
If you are interested in seeing some piebald crows in different colors I could e-mail you some photos. Very few people ever get to see a piebald crow in the wild.
If you ever make it to Kansas I would be happy to buy you lunch. If you met me in person you would see I’m not the cold hearted kind of guy you think I am.
With what is going on in the world right now there are far more pressing issues than lead shot.
You like ribs? They make the best damn ribs you ever had at Roy’s Rib Shack here in Hutchinson.
So tell me, on average how many birds do you help recover each year? Any particular species ?
My wife & I had a pair of Cockatiel’s named Honky (because he was white) and Shmidlapp. They were nice birds, they would always do a wolf whistle whenever the Andy Griffith show came on the air.
Bob,
I give you irrefutable evidence that lead is poisoning our environment – gathered by a hunter, no less – and you quickly switch the subject to Roy’s Rib Shack. When cornered, you say “there are far more pressing issues than lead shot.”
Lead poisoning is not a quick, clean death. It is long and agonizing. You have no doubt killed thousands of species not on your “vermin” list by leaving them lead-filled “smorgasbords” and areas filled with shot.
You describe yourself as a goodhearted, animal-loving man. Watch this very short video of a lead poisoned Bald Eagle, taken at the SOAR (Saving Our Avian Resources) facilities in Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWxFRjLPPXo
Are you man enough to take scientific evidence, think about it, process it, and come to the conclusion that you are personally causing this kind of suffering? Or do you hang on to your Old West Maverick image at all costs, and truly believe ethics apply to everyone but you?
Suzie,
I was reading Larry’s post about lead poisoning and he stated that there were 10 Bald Eagles that died from it in New York State. He does not mention if this was this past year or not, no time frame was mentioned.
While very regrettable having these Bald Eagles die from lead poisoning you are over looking the fact that 10 dead Bald Eagles represent 1/10th of one percent of the total population! It is estimated that there are 10,000 Bald Eagles in the lower 48 United States! So you are getting knots in your rope for nothing, I’ll take a 1/10th of one percent loss any day, it could be far worse. Are you woman enough to accept these facts!
Your evidence is anything but irrefutable. Am I to believe we should ban lead shot because 1/10th of one percent of Bald Eagles die from lead poisoning, You don’t have a leg to stand on with these facts.
Hey, I was not trying to change the subject when you refer to me being cornered. I was merely holding out an olive branch to you if you ever ventured this way with your family.
Suzie, sorry but I can’t watch stuff like that, it’s very depressing.
So tell me what are the most common bird injuries? Do you get many fledglings in your line of work? How many birds do you have at any one time in your home?
No Suzie I don’t feel cornered now when I ask you once again if you like good ribs? If you are ever down this way with your family come on ahead. You are an intelligent woman, I like that because you stand for something and are passionate about it. We have had a spirited debate and as hard as it is for you to accept even 1/10th of one percent I feel like those are damn good odds in the Bald Eagles favor .
Aronsohn, should you one day die in agony it wont matter to anyone but you since you’re only one of 7 billion. Correct? Human beings are ‘supposedly’ the one species capable of mercy & empathy & those devoid of either are labeled as psychopaths.
Not to have any empathy at all for other living beings just because they don’t look like you, doesn’t make you a psychopath, but there is some basic human quality lacking, one would think.
My post did indeed say “last year”. And even 1 dead eagle is unacceptable when there is a viable alternative. And Bald Eagle is just one of many species negatively affected by lead left in the field. If banning lead shot is OK for waterfowl, it should be banned from all hunting use.
Bob –
10 Bald Eagles died from lead poisoning in New York? 10 RECOVERED Bald Eagles. 10 eagles who happened to be found, taken to DEC or a rehabber, and tested. You say you know so much about wildlife – what would a sick eagle do? Would she head for the deep woods, since all wild animals know that any sign of weakness is the dinner bell for predators? Or would she drag herself to the nearest human, hoping for help?
In 1991 lead shot was federally banned for use in hunting waterfowl because of documented lead poisoning of waterfowl and Bald Eagles. Lead poisoning is a significant mortality factor for endangered Trumpeter Swans. Wisconsin’s a bit closer to you: http://www.wisconsinbirds.orleadpoisoningpaper.htm
You find watching dying eagles depressing – but it’s your fault they’re dying. Lead is toxic to wildlife. You leave lead behind whenever you shoot. You and your cronies shoot a lot. Conclusion?
Sorry, folksy little chats about my work are out. I’d have lunch with Anthony Prieto anytime. You – no. Mass killers disgust me.
If your mind ever opens, let me know and I’ll take another shot at saving Kansas wildlife agonizing poisoning deaths. For now, this discussion is a waste of valuable site space.
Suzie,
I was curious how you feel about the film clip you wanted me to watch. If this is film footage about watching a Bald Eagle dying my response is why? If the people that filmed this had any compassion at all they would have dispatched the eagle and put it out of it’s misery; and you think I’m cold hearted!
Ok, I grant you only 10 found dead Bald Eagles that they know of. Well Alaska has 50,000 Bald Eagles and Canada an additional 40 odd thousand more so you are getting upset over nothing in my opinion.
Suzie, you just said ” if my mind ever opens ” well don’t you think that perhaps your mind is pretty closed as well when you say mass killers disgust me? I mean what I say when I say I’m sorry you feel that way.
Sincerely,
Bob Aronsohn
Aronsohn, you keep referring to populations of species to try & justify you wanton slaughtering in terms of a small percentage.
Again, how do you look at yourself in terms of 7 billion of you. Do you think your life or personal suffering is worth anything? Wildlife is something to be cherished & respected for how they manage to survive against all the persecution they suffer at the hands of man since the beginning of time until this day. Surely it’s time long past for us to begin to appreciate their presence on this earth & even if you cant accept the fact, each individual of them wants to live as much as you, & suffers the same as you if someone did unto you as you do to them without any mercy.
M Leybra,
7 billion of me?
Ah lets talk about suffering & anxiety when cattle, lambs and hogs are slaughtered at a slaughter house. If you eat beef, pork or lamb you are contributing to what you accuse me of, just because your hands remain clean does not mean you don’t contribute to the slaughter. Those animals have no chance whereas crows do in the field when I hunt them.
Even tomatoes, grapes, melons, potatoes and lettuce all have feelings and have brothers & sisters that mourn there loss when they are ripped & cut from the vine. So what are you going to do, give up eating?
We as a people have been far removed from for quite some time when it comes to putting food on the table. It was not very long ago when you sent your son outside to chop the heads off of the chickens because family was coming over for Sunday dinner! People also have more time on there hands now to ponder the fate of living creatures.
Hunting is my pursuet of happiness, so I’ll just keep at it.
Suzie,
Suppose that you had a mouse problem in your house. What would you do? Here are four options.
1) You could let the mouse live in your house, but then it would undoubtedly cause problems, some of which could be quite expensive to repair. No matter how pro-animal you are, I doubt this would happen.
2) You could use the traditional method and simply set a mouse trap, but then it looks like mouse stew would be on the menu, because remember, “if you kill it, then you eat it”. And besides that, you would be a murder. Can’t have that. Next.
3) You could use mouse problem, but then you would still be a murderer. And besides that, think of this- if the mouse would happen to wander outside before it died, it is always possible that another animal could eat it and in turn get poisoned. Now you would have multiple deaths on your hands, which might even put you right up there with serial killers. This option is out.
4) You could use a live trap to catch the mouse and move it to another location, but that would only be relocating the problem (which doesn’t work- besides, think of the emotional distress the mouse might suffer due to being ousted from it’s home). And what if the mouse happened to find it’s way into the home of someone less kind? If they would trap it, you would be partly responsible for it’s death, all because you were to selfish to let the little guy live in your house.
The same goes for crows. They cause problems. Their population must be kept under control. The idea that ‘if you kill it, then you eat it’ is simply ridiculous. Looks like everybody better stop trapping mice and rats, not to mention other pests that are killed when they cause problems, such as squirrels, and yes, crows. The reason people hunt these animals is not only for the sport, which is an added bonus, but because the population needs to be controlled. If people can kill this many crows every year and there is still such a large American crow population, it sounds to me like more people should take up crow hunting.
One other comment. In your second article, you were advocating a bill in New York that would ban contest killing in New York state. If passed, you would expect others to obey this law, even if they disagree with it. Yet when you disagree with a law, you put yourself above the law and openly write about breaking that law, just because you didn’t like it (http://10000birds.com/shutting-your-trap.htm)! You didn’t like the fact that the trapper wasn’t going to get in to any trouble (when he was doing absolutely nothing illegal) like you thought he should have, so you destroyed his trap on purpose (not to mention you didn’t know the law in the first place and stole it before you ruined it)! Before you advocate another law, try learning to obey the ones that already exist.
Mr. T,
I have had many mouse problems in my house. I create tunnels on either side of the mouse trap using books or boxes, so the mouse goes straight into the trap and is killed instantly, and there is no way it can end up caught by one leg and maimed. I then feed the mouse to the recovering hawks, owls, vultures, and, yes, crows in my care.
I do not use poison. Poison is documented as causing secondary poisoning in predators, just like lead ammunition is documented as causing lead poisoning in the wildlife who ingest it.
You seem to be confusing me with extreme animal rights activists, even though I have stated over and over again that I am not anti-hunting. This is a common reaction from hunters who do not do their research and simply want to argue. There are extremists who want to ban hunting, fishing, keeping animals as pets, etc., and who have no chance of reaching their agenda; then there are those, like me, who simply want to 1) ban killing contests, especially those which, in the era of Sandy Hook, teach children that mass slaughter is fun; and 2) ban lead ammunition. Please do not tell me that hunters who spend thousands and thousands of dollars per year on equipment and licenses cannot afford a few dollars more for copper ammo, when California Condors are on the brink of extinction thanks to all the lead in the environment, and when a shooting range monitored by the Coast Guard in Petaluma qualified as a Superfund site because of all the lead.
Yes, I put myself above the law when I stole and destroyed the trapper’s trap. As I said in my blog, I told the DEC officer he should arrest me. However, the trap did not suffer fear, pain, and the loss of its family group. I did not invite my friends to join me, nor did I hand their children my sledgehammer and encourage them to take a few whacks at it while it was struggling to drag itself away.
And what was the result? The trapper ended up in court, and had to pay a fine. He became infamous in our small town, and no one has reported seeing any of his traps since then. This is good news for our wildlife, but not for those in neighboring towns.
I am advocating not one, but two more laws. Bombs away.
Mr. T,
I have had many mouse problems in my house. I create tunnels on either side of the mouse trap using books or boxes, so the mouse goes straight into the trap and is killed instantly, and there is no way it can end up caught by one leg and maimed. I then feed the mouse to the recovering hawks, owls, vultures, and, yes, crows in my care.
I do not use poison. Poison is documented as causing secondary poisoning in predators, just like lead ammunition is documented as causing lead poisoning in the wildlife who ingest it.
You seem to be confusing me with extreme animal rights activists, even though I have stated over and over again that I am not anti-hunting. This is a common reaction from hunters who do not do their research, and simply want to argue. There are extremists who want to ban hunting, fishing, keeping animals as pets, etc., and who have no chance of reaching their agenda; then there are those, like me, who simply want to 1) ban killing contests, especially those which, in the era of Sandy Hook, teach children that mass slaughter is fun; and 2) ban lead ammunition. Please do not tell me that hunters who spend thousands and thousands of dollars per year on equipment and licenses cannot afford a few dollars more for copper ammo, when California Condors are on the brink of extinction thanks to all the lead in the environment, and when a shooting range monitored by the Coast Guard in Petaluma qualified as a Superfund site because of all the lead in the soil.
Yes, I put myself above the law when I stole and destroyed the trapper’s trap. As I wrote in my blog, I told the DEC officer he should arrest me. However, I killed one steel trap, not hundreds (or thousands). I did not invite all my friends to join me, and I did not hand their children my sledgehammer and encourage them to take a few whacks at it while it was struggling to drag itself away.
And what was the result? The trapper ended up in court, and had to pay a fine. He became infamous in our small town, and no one has reported seeing any of his traps here since. This is good news for our wildlife, but not for those in neighboring towns.
I am advocating not one, but two more laws. Bombs away.
“I thought you could only be a serial killer if you killed other human beings? ”
‘Serial killer’ is normally only used when referring to human beings because they are a ‘protected’ species & you’d be prosecuted & pay the price if you did to humans what you’re doing to defenseless, unprotected other species. You appear to be a God fearing person in which case you should be aware that God or whatever Power of Creation put you here, also put the other species here. If you don’t like the word serial killer, what you’re doing comes down to the same thing. Call it what you will, semantics is not the issue.
You say, “I have eaten waterfowl killed with lead shot for almost half my life when it was still legal to shoot it and I’m still kicking!
Assuming because u know the lead shot is in the carcass u eat, u make a concentrated effort not to ingest the actual lead whereas the unsuspecting (naïve) other predator doesn’t know & therefore inadvertently ingests the actual shot & suffers. OK?
Suzie,
How dare you bring Sandy Hook into this. It has absolutely nothing to do with hunting in any of its forms. And also, you want proof from others on their statements. Where is yours? Where? Oh- wait… what am I thinking? You have none, because there is none.
So what is the difference if you trap mice and feed them to recuperating wildlife and someone shoots a crow and it gets eaten by a vulture, hawk or some other type of wildlife? And by the way, many hunters do not use lead shot anymore. You just assumed that is what would be used, merely because it was not prohibited in the contest.
I am not confusing you with anyone. I never once said or suggested that you were completely anti-hunting. I was simply raising a point about why crow hunting is necessary. Never once did I mention deer, rabbit, bear or any other type of hunting.
I shouldn’t even attempt to address the last part of your comment because it is so ridiculous, but if I understand the point you were trying to make in that bit of nonsense, nobody tries to kill wounded crows as they try to escape (and it isn’t possible to ‘kill’ a trap- I just thought you might like to know that).
“I was simply raising a point about why crow hunting is necessary. ” Where’d this come from, that line in Bible that says something about the 2-legged Killer Ape ‘having dominion’ over all other species?
What about hunter’s bible that says, u eat what u kill? Most ludicrous & amusing of all is the idea that the one species totally incapable of controlling it’s own over-population, gets to decide what other species need to be controlled. However we all know that’s something only promoted by Govt.Wildlife Agencies looking to the dollar they can make off the blood of un-owned free life.
Mr. T:
Contests where children are taught that mass killing of wildlife is acceptable/admirable/fun, and incidents where children stockpile weapons and shoot up their schools – what a leap! Who would ever have connected the two?
You don’t kill wounded crows as they try to escape? You mean you leave them there, to suffer long and agonizing deaths? You have just shot yourself in the foot, so to speak.
Evidently you believe I think steel traps are living, breathing beings, and was not simply using a writer’s device called a “metaphor.” Go ahead, you can Google the word.
The rest of this has been covered.
Those of you who condemn “crow killings” have never heard the plaintive cries of a pair of hawks trying to defend their nest from 200 crows in a frenzy–or seen an owl run out of its tree in bright daylight, fleeing for it’s life. Never saw crows rob song birds nest of the eggs or the baby birds. Crows are a danger to ALL other birds and it is heartbreaking to watch and listen to their attacks.
Barbara, nature is “red in tooth and claw.” Yes, crows are nest predators. So are many snakes, Blue Jays, raccoons, chipmunks, squirrels, and a host of other creatures. Should we start indiscriminately blowing all of them away as well?
Thanks for saying that.
I have a small pecan orchard and that’s my only meager income. I get a crop every other year because pecans are alternate bearers most years . One year on the other a off year. If I didn’t protect my orchard from crows and squirrels it would be impossible to survive farming pecans. Scare devices don’t work. Crows learn real quick there’s no danger from them. If they see their own kind getting killed it’ll keep them away for awhile. It’s no different than a farmer protecting his crop from insects. If everyone thought as you do farmers wouldn’t be able to feed the world. Crows are increasing in numbers because we don’t have enough crow hunters. I’ve ran ads looking for hunters to help protect my crop and nobody in my area is even interested because they don’t eat them.
James, I looked up solar powered, motion activated wildlife deterrents that use sounds to deter them, thinking maybe you could put them in a few trees, but as it turns out your orchard is far too big. I have sympathy for small farmers (not Big Ag) who are simply trying to protect their crops, but crows are opportunists, like humans. There would not be so many crows if people had not upset the balance of local ecosystems, destroying natural habitat and leaving their garbage everywhere. I understand your frustration but trying to keep local crows away from your farm is different than sponsoring a killing contest, or traveling around the state gunning down as many as you can just for the sheer sick thrill of it.